Kordon Fish Bags

sthn75

Seeing as how the suggestion was brought up in another topic.. I'd thought i'd set up a separate post to discuss them.


I've done some minor research and you can read up on these Kordon Breathable Fish Bags here...

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.novalek.com/kordon/articles/breathing_bags.html">http://www.novalek.com/kordon/articles/ ... _bags.html</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.novalek.com/kordon/breathing_bags/index.htm">http://www.novalek.com/kordon/breathing_bags/index.htm</a><!-- m -->

and an independent review on the bags can be found here... <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20010420164228/http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/1997/aug/product/default.asp">http://web.archive.org/web/200104201642 ... efault.asp</a><!-- m -->

I've also browsed a couple of international forums and found differing opinions on the bags...

Some believe that it's better to use the bags they do help to reduce fish deaths while in transit, less stress due to less sloshing about with the water, but others have pointed out that some fish should not be transported in these bags such as fish with spines or barbs which can easily puncture the bags or air breathers such as bettas & gourami's.

Kordon breather bags are designed for NO AIR to be in the bag, full of water. this has several advantages outside of the just the ability to allow valuable oxygen into and bad co2 out the main one being the minimization of the "sloshing" in the bag and chance of a fish getting left high and DRY in a crease somewhere if the box gets turned over.

But in the meantime... submit your vote & post your views <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

sthn75

My own personal opinion, would be "yes" but as an optional extra in the order process. I have had fish freighted in these bags before and do like them especially because of the CO2 out & the oxygen in but I haven't had any real problem with normal bags, so I guess it would come down to the extra price.

Mooo

I think they are amazing and very necessary for delicate fish.
I love the idea, Do $ count when were dealing with lives.. <!-- s:? --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" /><!-- s:? -->
I'm only a struggling pensioner, but with my recent fish deaths of those georgeous fish still fresh in my heart, I would be pleased to pay the $ for happier fish,
Of course they wouldn't be expected to be used when freighting fish with spines..
Thanks for the opportunity to keep our traveling fish safer.

EDIT: Is that it
Only us couple who care about our fish enough to warrant the use of these marvels ?I truly thought we would get more interest than that.

EDIT: It's a relief to see a bit more interest <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Thanks to the members who voted

LauraFrog

I think this is a fantastic idea, and I would like to see it more widely used but there's one point that nobody has actually brought up. If the bags actually included a way of expiring ammonia, I'm sure that it would have been mentioned in the article somewhere. (I read the whole thing). Packing fish in small compartments and therefore preventing them harming themselves is a fantastic idea in theory, but I don't know that it would work in reality because of the ammonia buildup. I don't know how long it would take for enough ammonia to build up to kill the fish, but my guess would be that if you packed a delicate fish in a tube barely large enough for it to move in as Kordon suggests, the ammonia buildup during shipping would cause it to arrive in fairly poor condition.

For livefish, with delivery basically in a few days I would love to see it but definitely as an option.

sthn75

As far as I can tell they don't do anything about the ammonia build up. But then ammonia would only build up depending on how much poop the fish made in the bags (or if fish have died). Theoretically... fish are supposed to be starved a day or two before being packed into shipping bags so that they don't poop too much during transit & therefore reducing the amount of ammonia that would build up.

Next time I get an order from Livefish, I'll do a full range of tests on the water in the bags & see what the results are.

LauraFrog

What about the normal ammonia produced by fish respiration? There's no way to stop that other than preventing the fish's breathing, which kind of defeats the point.

Ammo lock (hydroxymethanesulfonate) might work. Opinions?
I wanna get my hands on some of these now though. I'm thinking bettas - stuff those pestilential jars and shelves, hang lines and peg breathing bags to them. Bettas overhead! Oh, the wasted space!

Brengun

Fish do not breath out ammonia, they breath out carbon dioxide just like anyone else does.
The ammonia you mention is a result of fish wastes(poop) in the bag. It is for this reason the more professional fishkeeepers usually fast the fish for at least 24 hours before placing it into the bag for shipping.

LauraFrog

I always understood that fish produced a small amount of ammonia as a byproduct of respiration. It was on the Practical Fishkeeping website. Look at that article they wrote about all the nasty things that have happened because of fish. (I'm not talking about the betta-in-penis article - have a look at the two they are blaming for blocking up traffic. One is the b-u-p article, the other one is the one I'm talking about. The willy fish that follows a human's urine stream (attracted to the ammonia) and rams itself up your - weeeeelll...

Apparently it does this because it follows the ammonia and thinks it's the ammonia produced by a large fish's gills.

sthn75

It's been a long time since I took chemistry... but i'll see what I can find out (and understand) <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->

Dr. Qwert

looking at this from what ive been taught in biology
fish breath out CO2 like all animals & absorb the O2. Plants vice versa.
urine does not actually contain ammonia, it contains urea which is a similar nitrogen based compound yet diffferent, ammonia is NH3, urea (NH2)2OC & diluted with H2O! so i dare say that site is based on urban legend!

LauraFrog

This is the Practical Fishkeeping website I'm talking about... you know, the UK's best selling fish magazine! Go check out the site, it's pretty good. That might be wrong though, I dunno. That's just what I thought. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first one to celebrate because it will make it a lot easier to ship fish.

fishwish

Do you really think live fish would make the change, I was dissapointed when My small tetras arrived in a bag without rounded corners I thought this was just the basics to stop fish being trapped.

Brengun

I know a guy in Brisbane who sell the bags. He gets them imported.
Before he was convinced of how good the write up was on them he fasted some cichlids, bagged them and sat them in a temperature regulated room.

After a month, he felt sorry for them as they were really looking thin and starving and he returned them to their tank and gave them a feed. None of them died and they all regained their condition in a few weeks of good feeding.

Mooo

Whao!! Awesome, would hate to trap a fishy in a bag for a whole month, but Whao!!
What great bags...

SilverCichlid

Wow, that's amazing! What great bags <!-- s:dance3: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/dance.gif" alt=":dance3:" title="dance3" /><!-- s:dance3: -->

tin

"fishwish&quot wrote:

Do you really think live fish would make the change, I was dissapointed when My small tetras arrived in a bag without rounded corners I thought this was just the basics to stop fish being trapped.

I think the square corners and the way bags collapse in on themselves was what killed one of my Neons in transit. The dead one was upside down in a corner with the plastic collapsed on it.
Next time I order I would love the option of better quality bags to try and prevent this happening. I'd probably happily pay an extra $2 or so per bag to have it happen.

Brengun

Thats rotten luck Tin. The kordon bags seem to be much more pliable so anything caught in a corner wouldn't hold them for long anyway.
I have been able to get kordon bags into Australia in small lots from the USA via ebay.

Am I allowed to say this on forum? They feel like a silicon boob when full of water and now we've been calling them boobie bags. <!-- s:laugh3: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/PMSL.gif" alt=":laugh3:" title="laugh3" /><!-- s:laugh3: -->

Brengun

For those wanting to ship fish in personal sales via Australia post, I have been buying my bags and heatpacks from here:
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Postage is roughly going to cost you as much as the order does. I choose the cheapest option on postage and then ask Ken if he can do it any cheaper. Sometimes he can and deposits the difference back into my account.

Don't even dream of importing fish food or anything as customs will confiscate it on you.