All Fish Hobbyists - You Need To Know This Urgently
sxcsamman
Member Posts: 87
Hi Guys
I have Copy Pasted This from http://www.perthcichlid.com.au/forum/index.php?showtopic=20326&pid=106711&st=0&#entry106711
as i think we all need to do it and asap.
Thanks and Regards
Sam
ALL FISH HOBBYISTS - YOU NEED TO KNOW THIS URGENTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last week representatives of the pet industry attended a meeting in Canberra with officials from Department of the Environment & Water & also the Bureau of Rural Sciences. We are advised from this meeting that they intend, effective 7th November, to recategorise ALL of the fish species currently on their "Grey List" as "Noxious".
This would result in all of these fish being illegal to sell or even keep privately, with the sanctions of fines & possible convictions for anyone caught doing so, & the seizing & destroying of the fish.
The full grey list can be viewed on <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.brs.gov.au/ornamental">http://www.brs.gov.au/ornamental</a><!-- m --> , but includes amongst others most of the large American cichlids, all arowanas, bichirs, knifefish, stingrays, eels, koi & a number of large catfish & "exotics". In effect almost all large fish kept in the hobby today.
It is also important to stress that this list is not final, & other species can be added later.
If allowed to proceed this legislation will decimate our hobby, & if this is of concern to you we need your help to stop it. One of the major problems is that the Government Departments have mainly consulted wholesalers who are not badly effected by the fish listed, & we need to ensure that they learn just how much opposition is out there to this proposal.
THE ONLY THING THAT WILL STOP THIS OUTRAGE IS IF WE BURY THE DEPARTMENTS & MINISTER IN OBJECTIONS. Hobbyists, retailers & aquarium societies are all banding together to give a unified response to achieve adequate consultation.
Attached please find a pro forma letter that we would urge you sign & email to the parties listed, & preferably also your local member as well. Of course feel free to add your comments or write your own if you prefer.
Please also tell anyone eelse you know & ask them to help - part of the problem is no -one has been warned this was coming, & they have given us so little time to respond.
PLEASE ACT NOW - AFTER 7th NOVEMBER IT WILL BE TOO LATE. Don't leave it to others - we need every voice we can muster, only weight of numbers will make a difference.
Email contacts are:-
<!-- e --><a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><!-- e -->
<!-- e --><a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><!-- e -->
<!-- e --><a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><!-- e -->
<!-- e --><a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><!-- e -->
For the attention of :-
Mr Anthony Burke, Minister DAFF, PO Box 6022, Parliament House, Canberra, 2600
Mr Peter Garrett, Minister DEWHA, PO Box 6022, Parliament House, Canberra,2600
Mr Anthony Moore, Bureau of Rural Science, GPO Box 858 Canberra 2601
Mr Nick Gascoine, Department of Environment, Water, Heritage & the Arts GPO Box 787, Canberra, ACT,2601
Dear Sirs,
Re ; Proposed extension of the Australian & National Noxious Fish List
It has been brought to my attention that your department(s) intend to upgrade all of the fish species currently on the National Grey List to the category of Noxious, & I wish to object & oppose such action.
I am alarmed that this intention was only made known to a few industry representatives last week yet is proposed to be finalised by 7th November. This is clearly inadequate time for all interested parties to be informed & respond, & I preface my objections with a request that any decisions be delayed for sixty days to enable fair & reasonable consultation. I note also that to date that consultation which has occurred has mainly been with parties such as industry wholesalers who are largely unaffected by the proposal, & you need to be made aware of the very large number of retailers, hobbyists & members of aquarium societies who will be adversely affected.
- Unlike the current Noxious list, the proposed extension now includes many widely owned aquarium species, & many of the most prized & valuable in the hobby. Fish such as the American Cichlids, Arowanas, Stingrays,Knifefish, Eels, Bichirs & others form the heart of the collections of most serious aquarists, & are the economic mainstay of many aquarium retailers. Indeed many retailers would struggle to survive this proposal, particularly the specialist retailers who cannot generate sufficient profit if deprived of their most valuable sales. Note also that many hobbyists have tens ( & some hundreds) of thousands of dollars worth of fish in their collections, which value your proposal would wipe out over night.
- Any recategorisation should be on a species by species basis, not a blanket ban, & the "scientific" basis for such action needs to be both reasonable & transparent, & widely consulted rather than just an arbitrary subjective departmental opinion. Many of these species could not survive &/or reproduce in our waterways - due to temperature, water chemistry & predators - & even of those that theoretically could many have been kept as pets here for decades without problem.
- How can one reasonably claim the listed fish are worse than many not targeted, or is the ultimate intention to ban all non-native Australian fish? How can it be that a common goldfish is not banned when it can & does live in our colder & polluted waterways. Taken to it's logical conclusion are we to tell all pet shops in Australia they cannot sell goldfish, & all Australian children that they cannot have a goldfish in a bowl?
- Far from protecting our environment the proposal will have the opposite effect. Regrettably it will spawn a black market just as has occurred with reptiles & birds, & remove any chance of proper regulation. And fish which are today very valuable & unlikely to be released in waterways will become worthless & in the hands of many alienated hobbyists.
Certainly there are species on your list that need attention, but there are many that do not, & thought also needs to be given to alternatives such as registration, micro-chipping & perhaps even sterilization of some other more questionable species. I urge you to take a far more considered & informed approach to this issue.
Yours Faithfully
I have Copy Pasted This from http://www.perthcichlid.com.au/forum/index.php?showtopic=20326&pid=106711&st=0&#entry106711
as i think we all need to do it and asap.
Thanks and Regards
Sam
ALL FISH HOBBYISTS - YOU NEED TO KNOW THIS URGENTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last week representatives of the pet industry attended a meeting in Canberra with officials from Department of the Environment & Water & also the Bureau of Rural Sciences. We are advised from this meeting that they intend, effective 7th November, to recategorise ALL of the fish species currently on their "Grey List" as "Noxious".
This would result in all of these fish being illegal to sell or even keep privately, with the sanctions of fines & possible convictions for anyone caught doing so, & the seizing & destroying of the fish.
The full grey list can be viewed on <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.brs.gov.au/ornamental">http://www.brs.gov.au/ornamental</a><!-- m --> , but includes amongst others most of the large American cichlids, all arowanas, bichirs, knifefish, stingrays, eels, koi & a number of large catfish & "exotics". In effect almost all large fish kept in the hobby today.
It is also important to stress that this list is not final, & other species can be added later.
If allowed to proceed this legislation will decimate our hobby, & if this is of concern to you we need your help to stop it. One of the major problems is that the Government Departments have mainly consulted wholesalers who are not badly effected by the fish listed, & we need to ensure that they learn just how much opposition is out there to this proposal.
THE ONLY THING THAT WILL STOP THIS OUTRAGE IS IF WE BURY THE DEPARTMENTS & MINISTER IN OBJECTIONS. Hobbyists, retailers & aquarium societies are all banding together to give a unified response to achieve adequate consultation.
Attached please find a pro forma letter that we would urge you sign & email to the parties listed, & preferably also your local member as well. Of course feel free to add your comments or write your own if you prefer.
Please also tell anyone eelse you know & ask them to help - part of the problem is no -one has been warned this was coming, & they have given us so little time to respond.
PLEASE ACT NOW - AFTER 7th NOVEMBER IT WILL BE TOO LATE. Don't leave it to others - we need every voice we can muster, only weight of numbers will make a difference.
Email contacts are:-
<!-- e --><a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><!-- e -->
<!-- e --><a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><!-- e -->
<!-- e --><a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><!-- e -->
<!-- e --><a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><!-- e -->
For the attention of :-
Mr Anthony Burke, Minister DAFF, PO Box 6022, Parliament House, Canberra, 2600
Mr Peter Garrett, Minister DEWHA, PO Box 6022, Parliament House, Canberra,2600
Mr Anthony Moore, Bureau of Rural Science, GPO Box 858 Canberra 2601
Mr Nick Gascoine, Department of Environment, Water, Heritage & the Arts GPO Box 787, Canberra, ACT,2601
Dear Sirs,
Re ; Proposed extension of the Australian & National Noxious Fish List
It has been brought to my attention that your department(s) intend to upgrade all of the fish species currently on the National Grey List to the category of Noxious, & I wish to object & oppose such action.
I am alarmed that this intention was only made known to a few industry representatives last week yet is proposed to be finalised by 7th November. This is clearly inadequate time for all interested parties to be informed & respond, & I preface my objections with a request that any decisions be delayed for sixty days to enable fair & reasonable consultation. I note also that to date that consultation which has occurred has mainly been with parties such as industry wholesalers who are largely unaffected by the proposal, & you need to be made aware of the very large number of retailers, hobbyists & members of aquarium societies who will be adversely affected.
- Unlike the current Noxious list, the proposed extension now includes many widely owned aquarium species, & many of the most prized & valuable in the hobby. Fish such as the American Cichlids, Arowanas, Stingrays,Knifefish, Eels, Bichirs & others form the heart of the collections of most serious aquarists, & are the economic mainstay of many aquarium retailers. Indeed many retailers would struggle to survive this proposal, particularly the specialist retailers who cannot generate sufficient profit if deprived of their most valuable sales. Note also that many hobbyists have tens ( & some hundreds) of thousands of dollars worth of fish in their collections, which value your proposal would wipe out over night.
- Any recategorisation should be on a species by species basis, not a blanket ban, & the "scientific" basis for such action needs to be both reasonable & transparent, & widely consulted rather than just an arbitrary subjective departmental opinion. Many of these species could not survive &/or reproduce in our waterways - due to temperature, water chemistry & predators - & even of those that theoretically could many have been kept as pets here for decades without problem.
- How can one reasonably claim the listed fish are worse than many not targeted, or is the ultimate intention to ban all non-native Australian fish? How can it be that a common goldfish is not banned when it can & does live in our colder & polluted waterways. Taken to it's logical conclusion are we to tell all pet shops in Australia they cannot sell goldfish, & all Australian children that they cannot have a goldfish in a bowl?
- Far from protecting our environment the proposal will have the opposite effect. Regrettably it will spawn a black market just as has occurred with reptiles & birds, & remove any chance of proper regulation. And fish which are today very valuable & unlikely to be released in waterways will become worthless & in the hands of many alienated hobbyists.
Certainly there are species on your list that need attention, but there are many that do not, & thought also needs to be given to alternatives such as registration, micro-chipping & perhaps even sterilization of some other more questionable species. I urge you to take a far more considered & informed approach to this issue.
Yours Faithfully
Comments
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can you give me a direct link to the fish list?
you make some good points in that email such as throwing out expensive fish.
a $3000 stingray, can you see that being released?
the one thing i disagree with is that children should not keep a goldfish in a bowl
in my opinion it should not be the responsibility of the federal government to limit the species of fish but the state! for a person who lives in queensland a cichlid perhaps could survive in a waterway yet down here in melb can you see one surviving in the yarra? a blanket rule across aus is too general & will lead to an underground market! although obviously its alot harder to monitor the state boundaries, but their is a balance which must be obtained!
look at the large pests which have survived in aus
Foxes - Hunting
Rabbits - Hunting
Cane Toads - Pest control (how ironic)
carp - fishing
mosquito fish - larvae control
predominately the pest species which have survived are due to the government! feril cats & dogs are the only examples i can think of that are due to hobbyists. fish are a totally different caper!
i have heard that guppies & swordtails have escaped in Qld! not a huge pest but, could this be the eventuality of this, that such hugely common fish get banned? your goldfish, guppies, swords, mollies, platies, neons, etc etc
heres a hot tip for you! in the next 30yrs more animals will become extinct/endangerred due to climate change than fish making a quick dash for it from our aquariums. my point is that the energy of the governing bodies of natural australia have more urgent matters than the hudini fish!
if this is really top of their agenda then the laws need tightenning & people need to be made more aware of the risks of releasing fish! -
In the SW of WA i know that released fish species have had a devistating effect on native species. Many of the fish that are caught over here are introduced from the eastern states, does it address that?
trout is one example and so is silver perch, not native to the SW basin bit was introduced for sport fishing.
i know there are a few cichlid communities living in the wild up in Northern WA too. yabbies are also present in large numbers around perth but are not native to the area either, some guy released them into his dam ages ago and now theyve spread like wildfire and are putting pressure on local marron habitats.
I guess it always going to be the few who naively or purposefully release fish that ruin for everyone else.
I might suggest a license like that for frogs, snake and lizards -
why hasn't the government or piaa released any official news on this?
oh nd btw ive spread this to a couple more forums -
sorry emails were wrong try these and rember each email counts
<!-- e --><a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><!-- e -->
<!-- e --><a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><!-- e -->
<!-- e --><a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><!-- e -->
<!-- e --><a href="mailto:[email protected]">anthony.mo[email protected]</a><!-- e --> -
"thingthing" wrote:why hasn't the government or piaa released any official news on this?
oh nd btw ive spread this to a couple more forums
i have really got no idea why piaa has nothing to say, maybe they dont know to much; the goverment has been releasing some info on it but you really have to be in the right channel; its one of those things that have just really crept up on us all
theres some more intresting points in this forum::
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://plecomadness.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1974">http://plecomadness.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1974</a><!-- m --> -
LOL, me too..
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wheres the list of criminal fish
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<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.affashop.gov.au/product.asp?prodid=13332">http://www.affashop.gov.au/product.asp?prodid=13332</a><!-- m -->
you need to 'purchase' the file... it's free however!!!
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/fishweb/14442.html">http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/fishweb/14442.html</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://pas.dpi.nsw.gov.au/Threats/KTP_Profile.aspx?KTPID=2">http://pas.dpi.nsw.gov.au/Threats/KTP_P ... px?KTPID=2</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.asfb.org.au/research/index.htm">http://www.asfb.org.au/research/index.htm</a><!-- m -->
these are an interesting read...
I think some of these are still readily available.... so why are they thinking about banning others?! -
the list is on p 35-37 (need pdf reader)
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.affashop.gov.au/PdfFiles/ornamental_fish_report.pdf">http://www.affashop.gov.au/PdfFiles/orn ... report.pdf</a><!-- m -->
common fish on the list
sturgeons
frogmouth catfish
red devils
midias
peacock bass
pike cichlids
rio grande (texas) cichlid
wolf cichlid (dovii)
jaguar cichlid
false yellow jacket cichlid
bay snook cichlid
tench
roach
koi
topminow
bullheads, madtoms
south american lungfish
alligator gars
all spiney eels
featherback knifefish (not ghost knifefish)
arapima (pirarucu)
all non-australian arowana
pangasius catfish (shark catfish, mekong catfish)
european perch
lepoard catfish
tiger shovelnose catfish
red tailed catfish
shovelnose catfish
various livebearers (does not include guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies etc)
birchirs (ropefish)
freshwater river stingrays
butter catfish (african)
butter catfish
non-australian freshwater pufferfish
this is not all of the fish but the more common fish. many are only stated in latin names
i didn't realise jaguar cichlids were on the list until reading it over again, must buy more illegal fish!!!! -
apparently the ban has been put off to january 2009, because of the amount of complaints recieved. aparently there will be information, posters etc sent out to all stores selling live fish, and ads on tv before then.
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Phew... takes the heat off for a while..
Thanks for the info thingthing <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->
"I'm a Doug Addict" 
-
Hi everyone
Good work finding out so much about this! I'd just like to make a little suggestion or two to consider when writing to the government (I have some experience in govt work, not in environment or fisheries, but anyway please don't hate me!).
They'll have set up at least one "project team" to work on this so there really isn't much chance that they'll just drop it - those people won't let go of their jobs! Give them ideas for what to do with their time, e.g. focus on a few of the species listed, or on a new "strategy" like licensing retailers or developing a code of practice. The more detailed, the better.
If there's anyone out there who can give them numbers on how this will hurt the industry, that'd be great, e.g. "I am a small business owner and I will suffer a 20% drop in annual profit if I cannot import rare species for sale", and use buzz words like "severe economic impact" to make it politically unacceptable. A Minister needs to read it as "you're going to lose the next election".
Just a thought. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> -
I knew nothing about this petition. Please tell me, did it work?sxcsamman said:Hi Guys
I have Copy Pasted This from http://www.perthcichlid.com.au/forum/index.php?showtopic=20326&pid=106711&st=0&#entry106711
as i think we all need to do it and asap.
Thanks and Regards
Sam
ALL FISH HOBBYISTS - YOU NEED TO KNOW THIS URGENTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last week representatives of the pet industry attended a meeting in Canberra with officials from Department of the Environment & Water & also the Bureau of Rural Sciences. We are advised from this meeting that they intend, effective 7th November, to recategorise ALL of the fish species currently on their "Grey List" as "Noxious".
This would result in all of these fish being illegal to sell or even keep privately, with the sanctions of fines & possible convictions for anyone caught doing so, & the seizing & destroying of the fish.
The full grey list can be viewed on http://www.brs.gov.au/ornamental">http://www.brs.gov.au/ornamental</a><!-- m --> , but includes amongst others most of the large American cichlids, all arowanas, bichirs, knifefish, stingrays, eels, koi & a number of large catfish & "exotics". In effect almost all large fish kept in the hobby today.
-
The authorities really don't like economic consequences. But has that ever stopped them? We may not know what they are up to. But I like your idea.Jen said:Hi everyone
Good work finding out so much about this! I'd just like to make a little suggestion or two to consider when writing to the government (I have some experience in govt work, not in environment or fisheries, but anyway please don't hate me!).
They'll have set up at least one "project team" to work on this so there really isn't much chance that they'll just drop it - those people won't let go of their jobs! Give them ideas for what to do with their time, e.g. focus on a few of the species listed, or on a new "strategy" like licensing retailers or developing a code of practice. The more detailed, the better.
If there's anyone out there who can give them numbers on how this will hurt the industry, that'd be great, e.g. "I am a small business owner and I will suffer a 20% drop in annual profit if I cannot import rare species for sale", and use buzz words like "severe economic impact" to make it politically unacceptable. A Minister needs to read it as "you're going to lose the next election".
Just a thought. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
