Algae problem

2

Comments

  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    Oh! silly me not thinking that.
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    You gave me an idea Doug. I will get a corner filter and put in a phosphate romver product phosvac for example instead of placing it in my canister filter.
  • Doug
    Doug Member, Classifieds Posts: 2,371
    thats one of the reasons i love them :)
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    are all corner filters the same or their are better quality brands than others?
  • Mooo
    Mooo Moderator Posts: 7,653
    edited November 2012
    Nutrients? as in food for fish or plants?..
    Or do you mean the elements? ie water parameters..
    Luigi...Stick some black cardboard to back of the tank...Makes fish & plants stand out better too..
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  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    I like that Mooo! Will do that.
  • Doug
    Doug Member, Classifieds Posts: 2,371
    nutrients, things like ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and phosphates.
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    The only test kit I nned to get is to test phosphates.
  • Mooo
    Mooo Moderator Posts: 7,653
    But are they actually called nutrients Doug?
    As we know, I'm no scientist..But I'd call those elements....
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  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    I would call them elements as well.
  • Bob
    Bob Member, Classifieds Posts: 708
    Hi Luigi & Moo,

    Can't be elements, elements are all just one type of atom, Ammonia is 1 nitrogen, 3 hydrogen atoms, nitrite, 1 nitrogen, 2 oxygen, nitrate is 1 nitrogen and 3 oxygen, phosphates are any number of chemical compounds related to phosphoric acid, 3 hydrogen, 1 phosphate and 4 oxygen atoms.

    Essential nutrients include water, carbohydrates, protein, fat, fibre, vitamins and minerals. In the right quantities, along with sunlight, a number of minerals such as calcium, iron, etc. provide excellent nutrition for plants including algae. If you have fish food and/or waste breaking down in the tank there are going to be plenty of these nutrients available.

    Regards,

    Bob
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    Hi Bob

    I understand now

    Luigi
  • mr_c265
    mr_c265 Member Posts: 167
    Luigi, all corner filters (wait, we do mean box filters right?) are essentially the same, its a pretty basic design.

    Moo's idea for the black cardboard is a pretty solid one, but if you are half as sloppy as me with water changes, use black fabric because if you wet cardboard it streaks and runs and goes mouldy, if you wet black fabric it will dry in no time with the light on.

    Bob and Doug pretty much have this in the bag, but i figured i may be able to add a little.Nutrients is infact the right word, as the issue is soluble nutrients that nourish algal and plant growth. There are multiple ways of removing the nutrients.

    The Phosvac or whatever it is will remove Phosphate sure and probably get rid of some kinds of algae, but how do you know you're issue is phosphate? Phosphate removing media will normally only attract negative charged anions, if you have a problem with iron/magnesium/calcium, a phosphate remover isn't a good solution. Also, it will become saturated with phosphates quickly, especially if they were the original imbalance, and will need to be renewed frequently. Fish food is a source of Phosphate, so it will always be present, you just need a way of removing it frequently.

    Plants, one of the easiest choices to remove nutrients, plants will strip the water column of excessive nutrients and compete with the algae, its just a matter then of removing specific imbalances. I see you have various goldfish, and that makes plants an issue. At my dads farm there is a side part of the river that is infested with goldfish, theres only one plant growing in the whole pool, valis (i suspect its giant valis seeing as i have some with leaves 1.5 metres long). Im not sure goldfish can eat valis and it grows quickly (mine can grow 3cm a day with 70 watts of light) and it will quickly strip the excess nutrients out of the water column.

    Frequent water changes, are viable, unless the water you are putting back in is full of nutrients for the algae, in which case, the problem may never go away.

    You can also use various substrates to remove phosphates, however these are a temporary solution and will become saturated without plants/water changes to remove the additional phosphates.
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    I have 4 tanks. One tank has 6 black moor, anther tank with 11 oranda's, another with 3 ranchu's and another with 6 danio. I like the idea of using fabric. I have two piece of A3 cupboard and I was thinking of getting it laminated. When I do 25% water once to twice a week. I am currently using water dechlorinator to treat the water and using a product called GEO LIQUID.

    These Valis is it Valisneria?
  • mr_c265
    mr_c265 Member Posts: 167
    yeah vallisneria that's it! laminated cardboard will work just as well as fabric. ah geo liquid, the only product ever where it is impossible to find the ingredients, don't think that's causing the algae though. does the danio tank have algae issues or just the various goldfish? it could just be the amount of waste goldies make
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    I get algae problems with the danio tank too. I live in country victoria. The town water comes from undergournd. It is bored which goes to a tank which is gravity driven. Don't know if this has got something to do with it. The only cause I alge is that the room that tanks have a lot of natural light coming in. The house is newly built and we do not have any curtains yet.
  • mr_c265
    mr_c265 Member Posts: 167
    Makes sense i guess. If the water comes from underground, its likely that it will contain dissolved salts. Light by itself isnt sufficient for algae to grow, it needs nutrients as well and the combination of the nutrient laden ground water and the fish food would be sufficient for it to grow quite well. How much algae are we talking? Say if you were to scrape all the algae off the glass tomorrow, how long would it take before the glass is covered again? Again, plants would be a rather natural and effective solution. Im not sure if goldfish will eat it, but Java Moss is a water column feeder so wont require a nutritious substrate and will grow in most conditions and become quite rampant in an aquarium. image This is from a few weeks back and was just because i didnt have time to trim it for a few months. No algae in that tank. Other tank has rooted plants and not much Java Moss, has a fair bit of algae, but that may be due to other factors which i wont go into.
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    My wife has a turtle tank. It houses 2 Macleay turtles, 10 rosy barbs which were to be eaten by the turtles and she has 1 marble bristlenose. At first she used to get algae. She has been using easy-life fluid filtration medium (FFM). After a while using it she has no algae in her tank.

    The product claims that reducing algae is one of it's effects. It seems geo liquid doesn't do this. I am trying to get geo liquid koi & goldfish version. I am not having any success tracking it down. Due to not having a supplier near me, I am in direct connactwith the manager who is the distributor in Australiia.
  • mr_c265
    mr_c265 Member Posts: 167
    Well, i did a bit of research on Easy Life and i don't claim to be an expert, but i suspect that i could be right in this. (heres a bit of reading if you are interested fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200106/msg00127.html)

    Based on this the Easy Life FFM sounds like it is a mixture of clays such as bentonite and zeolite and other inorganic compounds that will attract ionic nutrients that are dissolved in the water. It seems that they have found a mixture of minerals that will attract both Cations and Anions and bind to them so as to remove them from the water column (or at least into a form where they are inaccessible to algae). For instance, it would seem that the product in your wife's tank is removing the soluble nutrients from the water column and as such has starved the algae and prevented its growth. if you regularly dose with this product and perform frequent water changes, i cant think why you would have a serious algae problem, especially considering the success your wife (and other people on various forums) have had with its use. This product has a similar effect to using natural plants and also to using things like PhosSorb, it will compete with the algae for the nutrients and will starve the algae. It also sounds like it may add certain ionic salts to the water (i gather this from the improves coral and plant growth claim) which may change you're water parameters, however i don't think this will contribute to algal growth.

    This kind of product doesn't appeal to me because it is too expensive for my liking and that i prefer non trademarked/secretive and where possible more natural solutions. However if it works for your wife and you think it is successful, i see no reason to not use it, i also think it will be quite effective in the long term (provided it is dosed regularly and with frequent water changes) at preventing algae. With regards to the one your wife uses, is there a reason you dont use the same product in your tank?
  • Doug
    Doug Member, Classifieds Posts: 2,371
    I like this guy ^

    Science Rules!
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    I like this guy too Doug?

    Mr_c265, what would you recommend? Also, what do you think of seachem phosguard and phosban?
  • mr_c265
    mr_c265 Member Posts: 167
    My recommendation for your circumstances would be to use the same product your wife uses, the Easy-Life FFM for the goldfish tanks and fast growing plants in the danio tank. If the product works for her, it clearly fixes any imbalances caused by your local water and the turtles waste, so it should work the same for you. Combined with frequent water changes, you should see a big difference quite quickly.

    Depending on what kind of filter you have, PhosGuard would reduce phosphates and silicates (negative charged ions (anions) that stimulate algae growth), these however may not be the issue, so there is a chance that they may have little to no effect on algae growth. It will also have to be replaced regularly. You will also have to invest in Phosphate tests to monitor if it is working correctly (or to ascertain whether the issue was phosphates in the first place). I know PhosGuard is effective at removing Phosphates, that much is clear, but as an algal control, if the issue isnt phosphates, it will do nothing. I cant speak from experience, if i have an issue with algae, i just use plants, ive never used PhosGuard so cant vouch for it myself, but i know a lot of people do use it and do see good results.

    Also, the black cardboard (or fabric) on the back of the tank is essential, as although algae cant survive on light alone, it will definitely grow quicker with excess light as it will give the algae more energy to grow and consume nutrients.

    And finally, thanks guys! I'm trying to avoid studying for my exams, chemistry in the aquarium is substantially more exciting than what im meant to be doing (organic spectroscopy (yuck)) :P any excuse to procrastinate will do.
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    Which plants grow quicker besides the Valisneria? I have only been recommend anubiason driftwood because goldfish like digging plants up.
  • mr_c265
    mr_c265 Member Posts: 167
    Java Moss will grow quickly, as will any of the floating plants. However these may be eaten by your goldfish. Elodea is quick to grow as well, however since its banned in most states it is a little harder to find.
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    My wife had some elodea, but the turtles destroyed them. Would moss grow on gravel and river sand or would I need to attach it to something?
  • Doug
    Doug Member, Classifieds Posts: 2,371
    moss grows on anything as well as free floating. I always have some moss in my breeding tanks and grow out tanks to soak any nutrient spikes :)
  • mr_c265
    mr_c265 Member Posts: 167
    i have a ball of moss that takes up at least 60 L of space, i agree that it will grow on anything, including itself, and also on everything you dont want it too, like heater cords, silicone, the lid of the fish tank, filter inlets, i dont consider this a bad thing, i just think it demonstrates how prolific it is. image Took this, this morning whilst moving my siamese fighter around.

    Semi Unrelated, but also doing an experiment with his old tank to see if inorganic clays really do have an effect on algae. Will post results if any, eventually. :D
  • mr_c265
    mr_c265 Member Posts: 167
    Also notice, that no matter how much i trim it, or reduce the water level or pull bits out, it will always grow to take up the entire tank.
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    If I grew java moss in my tank and let it grow all over the bottom. How would you need to gravel / sand vac the tank?
  • mr_c265
    mr_c265 Member Posts: 167
    Not sure if i read that correctly, but if you were to vacuum the bottom, you would push the moss out of the way and then vacuum under where it was. If the moss is stuck to the gravel, just shove the vacuum through it, it will survive. :)
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    This is off the topic..I would like your opinion on what is your opinion on hang on top filters and canister filters?
  • mr_c265
    mr_c265 Member Posts: 167
    Canister filters are the way to go, they are more adaptable and don't look as bad as HOB filters. The Eheim Canisters are serious quality, i dont have one at the moment, but i know plenty who do and they last forever. Slightly unrelated, but im running 3 Eheim Pickup 2012's in various tanks at the moment, one of them is about 10 years old i think and they are still going excellent.
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    I have a black moor tank which has 6 black moors. I had 3 ranchu with them, but I took them out and put them in a smaller tank. This is until they grow bigger. Then they will be put with the balck moors. I want to get a eheim 2215 for the tank, but I realised that I do not have enough room under the tank. I currently is running a fluval u4 and an aqua one hang on filter. I am thinking of reusing it's original top filter, but add better quality media. The option I was thinking of is putting 2 eheim pickup filters and removing the luval. What do you think?
  • mr_c265
    mr_c265 Member Posts: 167
    The filters you have at the moment are fine. The extra filtration capacity from a 2215 would be beneficial, however i wouldnt say it is essential, at least until you put the ranchu back in. The 2215 is pretty small (<20cm in diameter i think), it wouldn't be hard to fit it in a cabinet if that is the issue. How little space do you have under the tank?
  • mr_c265
    mr_c265 Member Posts: 167
    Oh sorry, i mean they are fine provided you do regular water changes.
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    This particular tank is on a corner tv cabinet. In a past comment I mentioned if I can put a canister besides the tv cabinet. That is the only option I have?
  • mr_c265
    mr_c265 Member Posts: 167
    Ill answer in your other thread, on the internal filters to keep it all in one place.
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    I am getting confused here.
  • mr_c265
    mr_c265 Member Posts: 167
    With what in particular? Sorry, i sometimes type without checking if it makes sense.
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    sorry, you answered in the ''internal filter''.
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    I am looking into getting an UV sterilizer. I am not sure what to get for a 3ft x 18 x 18 tank?
  • Bob
    Bob Member, Classifieds Posts: 708
    Hi Luigi,

    UV sterilisers are a big ticket item. You need one which is large enough to be effective. The usual process of connecting a UV steriliser is to position it on one of your filter lines.

    Most recommend using the "return" side of the filter so that the water has minimal residue/particles which can clog/coat the housing of the UV lamp reducing it's effectiveness.

    Regards,

    Bob
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    Hi Bob

    I ahd a thought would it be better getting a stand alone uv sterilizer or one that is built into the filter?

    Regards,

    Luigi
  • Bob
    Bob Member, Classifieds Posts: 708
    Small, in unit UV sterilisers don't have sufficient wattage or exposure time to achieve a "kill" rate that would make them worthwhile.

    Regards,

    Bob
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    livefish sells the aquael 5w, 9w and 11w. Would either of these be sufficent or a larger wattage be better?
  • Bob
    Bob Member, Classifieds Posts: 708
    Most people I have spoken to recommend at least 36 w to get the exposure time and kill rate required for any real effect.

    There are all sorts of formula you can apply relating to volume, wattage, exposure time, %kill rate etc. but all too technical for me. Perhaps do a search on the subject.

    Regards,

    Bob
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
  • luigi
    luigi Member Posts: 561
    I have had a bottle of pond care algaefix which is equivalent to api algaefix. I have used it and the algae blooms have disappeared. I use it once a week for preventing another outbreak.
  • Mooo
    Mooo Moderator Posts: 7,653
    I would use that sparingly :-&
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  • Doug
    Doug Member, Classifieds Posts: 2,371
    Algaefix is a great product...for a pond!

    Once again, and I'm not sure how often it can be said...

    IF YOU HAVE ALGAE ISSUES IN YOUR TANK THEN YOU HAVE A PROBLEM, FIX IT! DON'T JUST TREAT THE SYMPTOM!